Dr. Lisa Holland: Spiritually Coaching People Out of Chronic Pain

Welcome to Episode #7 of the Healing Pain Podcast with Dr. Lisa Holland!

Today we are joined by Dr. Lisa Holland, PT, DPT, WHC, ERYT, CAP.

Dr. Holland is a doctor of physical therapy and utilizes an integrated approach to healing pain. With over 22 years of experience in the profession of physical therapy she has a private practice as well as virtual health coach practice. She helps people with pain and chronic disease find a path toward healing while supporting and accompanying them on the healing journey.

In This Healing Pain Podcast You Will Learn:

The difference between treating pain versus coaching a client with pain.
Why coaching skills are important to both clinician and patient.
Why purpose and passion are the missing ingredient in the recovery process.
The role spirituality plays in pain relief.
How coaching skills can be combined within a traditional medical model.
The rapidly increasing scope of practice and role for a doctor of physical therapy (DPT) in decreasing the chronic pain epidemic.

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Welcome to Episode Number Four of the Healing Pain Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Joe Tatta. The question I have for you today to start off Episode 4 is: is there a difference between treating people with vain versus coaching them through a painful episode and eventually to a life free of pain?

I talk about that and more on today’s episode with Dr. Lisa Holland. She is a doctor physical therapy with an integrated practice in North Carolina. And we talk about no only the impact that physical therapists can have on our chronic pain epidemic, but also how to fine tune your coaching skills so that you can better serve your patient and clients. And if you are a patient in search of pain, why it might be optimal to find someone who has some of those coaching skills help you.

So, buckle up and enjoy today’s episode.

If you have any questions for me, please reach out to www.drjoetatta.com. I would be happy to talk to you. And if you’re interested in being on the podcast, I’d love to hear from you.

And without further ado, let’s welcome Dr. Lisa Holland to the Healing Pain Podcast.

Dr. Lisa Holland, welcome to the Healing Pain Podcast. It’s great to have you here today.

Thanks so much, Joe. Really honored to be on and so excited for the work you’re doing with pain and integrating things because that really is my passion. And, um, really happy to be here. Thanks a lot.

Glad to. Likewise. And, right now, we’re going to get into some great details today.

But, to start out, you are a doctor of physical therapy. And I love to ask practitioners how they got started and what they’re reason, what they’re calling was to helping people with chronic pain.

Yeah, thanks. I actually entered into rehabilitative medicine as an athletic trainer. I got my undergraduate degree at Hofstra University, so my bachelor’s was actually hands on while I was learning. So it was really great. And I was going to switch over to physical therapy and leave Hofstra, and I found that program. And I’m glad I stayed because it gave me a really nice perspective in terms of, like, playing the game of life. And I think I always kept that. So when I went into physical therapy, I really see that as how I’ve always approached everything, you know. Pregnancy: that’s the game. The total knee: that’s the game. Having the stroke: that’s the game. And then bringing that in.

So really working with pain is obviously part of the game of what we do as physical therapists or athletic trainers just on the extent because you’re working on a preventative end a little bit more and conditioning with them, but it really is about bringing this performance and changing things.

So, that being the case, I had a really unique view of how and why I work a lot with mind-bodies because my father suffered from persistent pain for so long. I really saw him lose his life, really, to that that cognitive level that wasn’t really understood and all his care and treatment for his back and his blame game on that. And I really had a really personal perspective of how the mind and perception of pain in general, if only approached as this outside physical thing, wasn’t really the key to feeling better and actually just living your life. And that’s why I really think of myself now as more of a lifesylist more than anything else with these other tools.

Excellent. I think your story is an awesome story. And a lot of us have similar story where we had undergrad in one field, and then we went on to get our clinical doctorate. And, as well, we’ve had family and friends that have influenced the way we practice.

So thanks for sharing your story with us.

So what does your practice look like today? So you have a doctorate in physical therapy. You use integrated strategies. How are you practicing? How are you reaching out to people who struggle with pain?

Yeah. I’ve always been very creative. And I went into, I moved from New York City area. I started my career and my first ten years were in New York City area, Long Island, tri-state area. And I worked a lot with orthopedics and sports medicine and the whole clinic and everything like that.

When I moved down to North Carolina, a little bit was for lifestyle change, and I wanted to have my own practice. And so I, for the past eleven years now, 2005 I opened up. Direct access was in the state. I set myself up as a primary care provider and a wellness center. And I really didn’t put “Lisa Holland Physical Therapy” on the window because in my market, that’s really not what was selling. [inaudible 00:04:44] is still popular here. Hospital based, kin of, conglomerates.

And so I put myself into a different model. And over the years that, when I moved that to what my needs and interests were. And so, now, today, I actually closed my wellness center where I actually had a lot of different disciplines actually in my wellness center. I really started looking into mentoring (I’m twenty-two years now into this world of rehab) other people to sort of rise up and do the things I was doing.

And now the conversations aren’t always so kooky and crazy as they were a decade ago. And so I actually have a smaller coaching office now inside of another facility, a spiral path healing arts center. And I work with some of those partners that I have either brought in or just networked with as a primary care, sending people out into teams, either while they’re working with me, or after they’re working with me. And so I teach yoga class over across the street at Pilates of Charlotte, and I use my coaching off for one-on-ones and a little bit of smaller group stuff. And now I really work virtually, as well.

So, I have the coaching aspect, both with mentoring other professionals such as yourself, as well as the clinical, to some extent, the health coaching things that don’t need as much hands-on, not straightforward physical therapy, some of the yoga, therapeutics, a lot of the spiritual work, spiritual soul coaching can be done on the phone in this type of interview style. Being present with the person without actually have to be hands on as well as some of the hands on work in my coaching office or at a center. In a workshop, something like that.

That’s great. So you’ve really have started to breach an area where you’re no longer in an office, or you are in an office, but it’s in a different setting. As a physical therapist, we think of walking into an office that has private treatment rooms and a reception area and probably some type of treatment or gym area where there’s exercise going on in manual therapy.

But my interest for you today, the question I have for you is: what is the different between coaching someone through pain relief, let’s say, versus actually treating them? Because as physical therapists, the first things we say is “I’m going to treat your pain.” But your spending a lot of time coaching people, kind of in a one-on-one type of environment.

So, what is the real difference between the two?

Yeah, that’s a great question and something that I think clinicians, healthcare clinicians that are used to treating really need to understand.

Coaching and treating are not the same thing. Coaching is really flipping that ownness of what’s going on in the session to the client themselves. Which I think, in treating, we’re so taught to linear target and shoot and bring all this stuff to that person that sometimes what gets in the way with following evidence based, and all these procedures and protocols, is actually: does that person really want that? And are we on the same page? Or, in terms of behavioral change, maybe that’s why they’re being non-compliant, or there’s not motivation to do some of the things is because you’re not on the same page with what the person really wants. Especially with pain, and especially with persistent pain.

My working with women’s health a lot, in that realm, there’s a different fight or flight response in women versus men. Men will be that fight or flight traditional thing you think of sympathetic nervous system. And then women will work towards tend and befriend to feel better. And so a loss of with pain, of maybe being able to tend for their family the same way or be in social groups, that is a really loss and a trauma.

So coaching people to see that mirror and actually take responsibility on that feeling and work with that. And then if you have to go to the psychologist in conjunct, even maybe another physical therapist. There are times that, you know there are not a lot of physical therapists doing this work, this coaching work, that I will then partner for that pelvic floor work or for that general orthopedic work.

Good. Go spend your time. I’m a cash-based business, so go use your insurance there and spend your limited dollars on me in this way.

So that’s the real difference is who’s actually doing more of the work, who’s doing more of the active participation during the session.

Right. So. But the one thing you said that’s interesting, and I’m starting to have more questions as we go along. There are a lot of not- So my podcast really focuses on natural ways to heal pain because we have a long history of too many drugs and injections and, potentially, even too many surgeries that aren’t needed. Or we can stave them off for quite a long time.

When it comes to persistent pain, active coping strategies. So that’s when a patient actively takes a role in changing their diet, or actively takes a role in starting an exercise program, actively takes a role in a psychology session with a psychologist who specializes in pain.

Active coping strategies are extremely important. Versus, let’s say, something that’s passive. Like, let’s take massage, for instance. Even though it feels really well and it does have clinical application, in the long run, it’s still not a active means of helping yourself. So, as a coach, really what you’re doing is helping that patient with, kind of, those active coping strategies versus the more passive ones.

So when we treat patients as a physical therapist, often times the patient is very passive. Sometimes they’re just laying there. They’re getting a modality. Sometimes they’re getting stretched, or manual therapy.

But can you talk about the active versus the passive coping strategies?

Yeah, that’s exactly it.

You know, passively being able to- I see it all as kind of a stress response and being able to process stress. So, I need to learn that. It’s a skill. In the same way, I needed to go back and learn some coaching skills and get my mind out of the treatment skills. In the same way, I need to go get some treatment skills to not just be a fitness trainer in the way I worked beforehand.

This is all in a spectrum of becoming that new life. Getting out of the role of victim. I can’t help anybody if they still feel like they’re victimized by that pain. If they still feel, in that drama and that trauma, of that. It’s very valid.

Actively, I can mobilize and manipulate and change the environment and so this. But, in terms of receptivity, which I feel is really important, and why some of that soul coaching of like- Yeah, who are you in this process needs to be addressed. And who really here is doing the work? I’m being paid not to do the healing for you; I’m being paid to support your healing. Which is an active thing. You’re going to heal. I can’t, I’m not a magician. Wish I was, be a billionaire. Right?

I think it’s a wonderful point. I mean, as professionals, we’re here to help you on a healing journey, basically.

Right, right. [crosstalk 00:11:59]

And there maybe times when I do something to you as a patient that may be passive. And there may be times when I have most of the responsibility for your healing, a certain phase of your rehab and recovery. But ultimately, and it’s tough for people in pain. Obviously, we want to be very sensitive to this. It’s difficult. Some of them have multiple medical problems and have past traumas that are both physical and emotional.

But when they work with someone like you and I who are physical therapists, and we’re also working on nutrition and the coaching aspect of it, they’re really saying “I trust you to get me through this journey,” basically.

Yes. And that word “trust” is so much of the healing I feel. I think those of us that work in a more integrative model and do some of the coaching can really see where you can trust the person to be that is really- What we talk about when we talk about client-centered care, that really is it. When you turn it over to the person to be in charge of their care path.

And one of the reasons why I had to leave a traditional system was a little bit of the mindset they came into it with when they walk through those doors versus, maybe, the environment I create now. Or the set up. Or the agreement even. Even down to the pay. Even down to how we’re exchanging our energies and our resources and our money. It all impacts their perception of how important this is to happen, for this change to happen.

Excellent. So I’m going to dive into the coaching a little further. Because, obviously, as a coach, you hit many different levels of things.

Right.

But one of the things I’m interested in asking about is: what is the role of someone’s spirit? And how do their spirit or spirituality come into their recovery from something like chronic pain?

Yeah. You know, that’s a touchy subject. With soul, body, mind, and soul, you know. Where does that soul or that spirituality come in in healing? And if you look historically, spirit and mysticism and some of those tangents, were actually where medicine and healing came out of. And then as we got into more of the science and the evidence base of research, we sort of started not having tools. How to you measure what someone’s purpose is? Or where their hope is on their scale? Or how attached to their body or their awareness of themselves and their impact on the world now with pain. How things have changed, we don’t have a tool for that.

So, unfortunately the Western medicine model doesn’t work a lot, although we know there’s energy and atoms and all of this. And we’re reading energy, heat waves and things like that. If we don’t have a technology for it, we sort of dismiss it.

But in cultures such as Eastern medicine, where they really understand the energy of a person and connecting with them in their essence, who they are down to not just their selves but in their personalities and everything else, that has a lot to do with- Number One, our relationship.

Mm hmm.

Do we connect? So much of the healing, it’s not just am I there as a person, but are we here listening? Holding space? Sharing this space, not just sharing this information. Are you being able to, you know. So all of that is really, when we take out the dogma of religion and God and that sort of thing, that’s what spirituality is. Or at least, how I use it. To the point of now even doing coaching assessments, psychosocial assessments to have a truly bio-psychosocial object. To have these conversations with more mainstream practitioners as well as people in complementary medicine that might be more open to it.

It really is about my relationship with myself, me relationship- It’s the psychosocial.

Yeah.

Is that peace. So it’s very important. And I think that medicine needs to appreciate that and bring that back. So that when I only have 5 or 10 minutes with a person, I’m with that person, not that label.

Right. So, you mention the word “bio-psychosocial,” which has come up multiple times on my podcast. I talk about it. Can you just explain? Because, obviously, during this podcast there are practitioners, we well as people that are in search of pain relief, that are listening to this.

Explain to them what bio-psychosocial means and how that might be different than what they have experienced in traditional medicine?

Yeah. I mean, I think this is one place where health leaders can really bring the concept into their present care plans without that dogma. The “bio” is, obviously, the biomechanical approach. Obviously, as physical therapists instill in us. Body parts as down to the reductionist as much as we can reduce it down to.

But there’s a psychosocial aspect. That’s not the brain, per se, in can it think and move, but our emotions. And our beliefs. And our ethics.

And I actually have a couple letters after my name now: certified axiology practitioner, which is really odd. But it actually is a way I found that is a philosophical way of evaluating what we find as “good.” And so, you know, even down to that, is this a good relationship to have? Is this a good thing for me to do? Whether or not your degree on your wall tells you “do this” or “take this medicine.”

Or even, on the other hand, we have an epidemic, an addiction problem here with medications. I may see all the science you’re giving me. This is not good for me to be doing, but I have feel and have a valuation of that being good.

So that’s the psychosocial, not just mentally, can we we have cognition? And does the brain work? And does the brain chemistry work? And the gut-brain connection and all of that chemistry and physiology happening. But how to I then process that? Relate to myself as an entity? Relate to the outside world as a significant entity? So that I might actually want to start living.

Because isn’t that really what it’s all about? Isn’t that why people go to physical therapy?

That’s absolutely right. People come to us because they’ve lost something in their life. Oftentimes it’s physical function, but ultimately that physical function usually leads to something deeper that they can’t do. Whether it’s go to their job everyday and earn income. Whether it’s engage in a loving relationship with their spouse or their children or their grandchildren. Or even their community at large.

If you can’t be physical enough, or healthy enough to engage in your school, or your church, it’s hard to really get to that level in life where you feel fulfilled.

Exactly. And so, it’s really hard for me, let’s say, as a body worker, just staying in that realm, to address that. I’m not going to be able to really get to my goals. I’m not going to, maybe, be hitting their motivating factors.

And these psychosocial objectives that I take with them now on [inaudible 00:19:14], I can, literally, get down to their valuation on working as a team member versus being a more dominant personality. And I can then make my plan to address that so that the per- We’re talking about being in the same language.

Right.

And so bio-psychosocial, and then I even say “spiritual,” that spiritual is that language of my really identifying with them as their own entity, their own energy, their own being.

Yeah.

Human being, as opposed to their diagnosis or their care plan. Or my billing codes. Or whatever.

One of the things I find missing from a framework when clinicians of any sort work with patients is, kind of, the purpose aspect. So I often find that, or I tell people “If you can find purpose in your life, a lot of times, having purpose mutes pain.”

Talk to me about purpose. And I know you have your own system of helping people along that journey.

Yes. Thank you very much.

The purpose, to me, is like a hand. And I know the physical therapists out there and occupational therapists can understand. What makes this hand really functional is this thumb. I mean, I have some function if I hook around and mobilize my hand, spinal cord, or whatever. But it really is this ability, for me to have this power in my thumb.

So for me, I’m a five-realm system that I always assess people through. It’s somewhat based a little bit on some of the yoga aspects of different kashas, or levels of being, but also bringing in the aspects of how we’re look at the body in terms of, you know, multidimensional, especially with pain care and cognitive pain care now. And understanding the environment, the epigenetics of the disease, as well as the genetics of the disease.

And that’s the physical level, the mental level, the energetic level, the psychosocial level, and then that purpose, which really is that thumb. To really blend it in. Because all these other things you can sort of share, but I feel like that thumb, that purpose is sort of the reservoir.

If you, it’s why people, like, you know when I was working as an athletic trainer, you’d somebody in professional sports get hurt. And, like, it’s like two years later they’re, like, shooting someone or something. It’s like their whole life derailed because they so identified their purpose with getting that ball down the field. When they couldn’t go that, for whatever reason, the time was done. It didn’t matter what their physical, mental, their social things. It’s like it didn’t matter.

So I feel like, you know, purpose. And then, again, that’s where, without the dogma, without the tangents to religion, maybe, where spirituality comes in. Because that’s what your looking at. Isn’t that really pretty much what spirit is? It’s me versus this whole, why am I even here?

Right. So then, what you’re really saying is: a cause for someone’s pain could actually not be physical. Because the first thing when someone’s in pain, they start looking at their joints, their muscles, their tendons. What you’re saying is that the generator for pain can be that loss of purpose in their life.

Definitely, any of those realms can generate a feeling. Because, again, pain is the perception at the brain level, at the cognitive level. It’s not the particular sensation. It’s the cognition whether or not that is a threat to me.

You know, does that effect my life? And if it’s mental, physical, emotional, energetic, we’re putting that someplace. We’re putting that in hundreds of places of our brain, whether or not we’re going to execute it as a code red in our body and change things physiologically, or whether we’re going to be like “Oh, wow, I didn’t even notice I was bleeding on my legs when I was doing all of this stuff.”

You know.

Right. So if a clinician is listening to this podcast, and many will, and they want to learn to integrate that fifth realm into their practice, how do they start doing that? When a lot of clinicians are are working, let’s say, larger healthcare systems, or it’s mainly a biomedical model, and this starts to bring in that bio-psychosocial model [inaudible 00:23:17] in a very strong way. And they may be a little uncomfortable themselves, or their supervisor, or peers at the clinic or hospital they work at may be a little, like, sounds a little, you know, “Woo, woo, do we really need this?”

How does someone start to bring that into practice where it’s not threatening the patient as well as to their coworkers?

Yeah. Great question.

Because it doesn’t matter if you can’t use it, right? Whatever things you’ve got on in continuing ed, you come back, and you’re like “I don’t have the time in five minutes to use this.”

So I think we need to look at evidence in practice. And who we are ourselves.

I work a lot with other clinicians on that. You know, they think they’re working on a personal brand or they’re trying to market something, but it’s really, kind of, do we know ourselves? So that we know those boundaries. Like, what we’re comfortable in talking. And then if you really know and understand the concept of how I’m, kind of, breaking it down with just even at, you know, understand the concept of just asking them “How do you feel with this plan?”

Mm hmm.

You know, what, you know, maybe asking some other questions on my intake. I’m not just, you know, obviously integrated I’m talking about. But what do you eat? How do you sleep? And this and that. Do you feel safe?

You know, what do you feel is the biggest loss from this injury? You could be very generic and vanilla on that.

Like I said, I started seeking out, a couple years ago, an objective tool, and I ended up finding it in, of all things, recruiters. And people, you know, interviewing people and finding their behaviors and their motivators and seeing where they worked in the system of work.

You could learn, and I’m actually starting to certify other people for that language, so that even if you don’t work and go to the level of certification on that, you have a language that’s very, you know, just talking about, you know, personal motivators. And figuring out more of the coaching talk that we talk in terms of, you know, what, are you somebody [inaudible 00:25:23] return on investment?

So just asking those very, you know, vanilla questions can be a way to sort of get: Number 1, do they feel there is a value and a purpose to what you’re going to be giving them? And then, also connecting them back as much as possible. I mean, when I was an athletic trainer, we learned you get that guy or gal on a bike if they can’t be on the field. Day one.

Then when I went to physical therapy school, it was like they ignored, completely, everything about anything of what the person was. And I always tried to bring that back, you know. If this person was a, liked to play certain games, or whatever, if I can make playing chess a physical therapy thing, I can give them a piece of that life back.

So this is the way we can start. You can do everything from just asking those questions. Do you feel safe? how do you feel about that plan of care? What do you want to do first? And putting the ball in their court. To getting very specific and learning another skill, such as axiology and certification, and behaviors and motivators, and giving them a beautiful report. And them giving them these reasons why you’re going to work on that.

Excellent. So as a doctor of physical therapy, I have a question for you about our chronic pain epidemic that we have, not only in this country, but it’s actually global. And obviously physical therapists practice in a number of different settings, and there’s no right or wrong. It’s just what is happening out there, and there are different settings that are right for practitioners and different settings that are appropriate for the patient.

But, as a doctor of physical therapy, why do you feel that physical therapists are, kind of, so key in our combating the chronic pain epidemic that we have? And they really stand at a keystone of turning the epidemic around, basically.

Yeah. I think if we look at the pain science in where you have to go: relationship, behavior modification, movement. This is where we’ve been somewhat trained. In terms of, in all the different medical disciplines, health coaching is great and what not, but maybe they don’t see somebody one day after a heart attack. And getting that boundary of how you can push people. Maybe their not working with that elite athlete all the time or that really sick person, having that full spectrum.

So if we can really move into that primary care model, when somebody’s in pain, and they start thinking, they can go the route of who is the specialist in regaining whatever it feels I have lost. Some lifestyle changes. Some movement. Again, reintegrating into my life. If we can align with that type of branding, of giving- You’re movement is life.

I mean. At the very cellular level. Atoms. And look at the basics. We’re the doctors of movement in this Western medical model. Let’s claim that and get out there. And be helping people live their lives with movement, as well as referring out to other disciplines, working a little bit more in a team model.

You don’t have to be the PT who has fifty-six letters after their name. You can be the PT that really knows your stuff, has an interest, really calls in those people, and knows the other disciplines. To be able to work as a team model. Whether it’s in your hospital system or in your private practice.

So I feel like we really, you know, we have natural tools. We have, you know, whether you use modalities or not modalities. We, the whole entire thing is we have these natural tools. We took over the work of the osteopaths and the manual techniques, and we came from a nursing background. Now at the doctoral level, we have the ability to screen for red flags and feel confident that, you know, at some point it’s our own risk. Your risk aversion.

It’s very easy acting still as a technician and following the protocol, and when the thing doesn’t work out you say “Oh. I don’t know?”

Yes. [crosstalk 00:29:27] Thank you for bringing up the primary care aspect because I’m going to have a physical therapist on in a couple weeks, and we’re going to talk about how physical therapists are rapidly moving into that primary care role. Especially when it comes to persistent and chronic pain. I really do think, within a matter of probably about five years, when you have pain, the first person you’re going to see is a physical therapist.

Yeah. I hope so.

Because we have all of this neuroanatomy background, gross anatomy, physical. We’re getting more into understanding the psychosocial, like I said, the cognitive level.

And then we can apply it, right there in that same session.

Yeah.

You know. We can really apply it right then. As opposed to, say, “Oh, how go to that person. Take this information and go to that person.”

So we have a problem now with primary care physicians being not as needed. So we can fill in a lot of- A lot of people go to the doctor because they’re in pain, a physician doctor, a medical doctor because they’re in pain. But the medical doctor might not have really the, they know it’s a lifestyle thing. They know it’s movement. They know it’s eating. They know it’s pain perception. Instead of waiting for them to maybe refer back and maybe that person having some other obstacle to get to you. Why not be where you see that?

And then if, per chance, you’re noticing there’s a visceral component or this or that, referring out for that. But still, even in that, you can probably start some care.

Excellent.

This is huge.

It really is. And I really think that a lot of ways, of course, there are other members of the medical team that are integral as well. But I do think that physical therapists can be the first touch point, the first contact that a patient has on their path to getting rid of that pain.

Definitely. And to make them feel safe. And have a conversation, a relationship.

Exactly. So as a physical therapist, a lot of us spend a lot of time with patients as it is. A lot of us are in environments where we spend anywhere between twenty to sixty minutes with people one-on-one, which is a lot of time. In this type of healthcare arena that we have currently in 2016 where the average primary care doctor can see a patient every seven minutes, which doesn’t offer a lot of time to work on those bio-psychosocial aspects that we talked about.

But if a therapist wants to enhance or continue their coaching skills, how do they do about that?

Yes. There’s a couple of really great coaching programs now, health coaching programs.

I went to Jessica Drummond’s program because of my interest with women’s health, and she has the, I think right now, the only women’s health-targeted, health coaching-oriented program with the Integrative Women’s Health Institute.

But there’s different programs for health coaching in particular and wellness coaching. Now, those aren’t necessarily the same thing. There is going to be a national licensure. 2017 is that first licensure for national. There’s a lot of different ways to get into it.

But definitely going and getting some of these coaching skills, whether you do it through a specific program of your interest, such as nutrition, or a more physical base, women’s athlete, or certain level of population, you need to learn some of these tools for listening. Active listening. I’m hoping some of the schools, all of the schools, start bringing in. I’m inching some, my alma mater towards that. Call out to Hunter College in Manhattan. To get some of these in the curriculum, so that when we’re interviewing, we’re interviewing a lot more motivational interviewing. We’re holding space. We’re turning the tables.

That is something that clinical evaluation skills assessment is not giving us. And it takes practice. So I definitely would look into some of these programs that are teaching health coaching. Duke has one. Mayo Clinic, I think, has one. The, I get really confused on it, it’s NCCHW, National Consortium on Continuing Health and Well Coaching. They have the schools that have been pre-approved to actually have a transitional program into that national certification.

So I definitely would say, in the least, work with a mentor that is, so you can start even using this. You don’t, again, need these certifications to do these things. You need to learn these skills.

Right.

Any there’s a grayness now here where you can be not licensed and certified but be using it. And we need to.

Excellent. So I’ve had the pleasure today to speak with Dr. Lisa Holland. She’s a doctor of physical therapy with a an integrated approach to pain care in North Carolina. And can you please tell all our listeners and viewers how they can learn more about you?

Great. Thank you so much, Joe.

For those that are on the clinical side, maybe looking at some of this stuff for their own personal development or bringing it into their practice: drlisahollandpt.com and for those maybe working more with wanting the care themselves, dealing with pain, persistent pain, some of my programming: bellyguru.com. That’s my company. Bellyguru.com.

Excellent. So I want to thank Dr. Lisa Holland for being with us today on the Healing Pain Summit. Please stay tuned for Episode Number 4, which will be coming out next week.

And stay connected with me at www.drjoetatta.com. Sign up for the mailing list so you get the updates on the podcast. And we will see you next week.

About Dr. Lisa Holland

Dr. Lisa Holland, PT, DPT, WHC, ERYT, CAP is internationally recognized within the industries of physical therapy, women’s health and therapeutic yoga for her successful integration of client lead behavioral change while honoring a non dogmatic biopsychosocial and spiritual approach to primary care physical rehabilitation.

With a focus on using objective biopsychosocial assessments, Lisa has spent the past 3 years creating an integrative language to include the psychosocial needs of her clients into treatment plans.  She is also actively developing continuing education for certifying fellow Medprenuers on how to do the same.  Through the lens of her 5 Realm System of Integrative Living, Lisa has helped hundreds of women, and their families, thrive by moving away from the fear of loss associated with illness and injury. By combining innovative methods that recognize the importance of social support, skilled physical rehabilitation, cognitive re-mapping, self-reflection, stress management, multidisciplinary care teams and strong nutritional health.

Learn more by visiting www.DrLisaHollandPT.com

Don’t miss the next episode of the Healing Pain Podcast!

The Healing Pain Podcast features expert interviews and serves as:

A community for both practitioners and seekers of health.
A free resource describing the least invasive, non-pharmacologic methods to heal pain.
A resource for safe alternatives to long-term opioid use and addiction.
A catalyst to broaden the conversation around chronic pain emphasizing biopsychosocial treatments.
A platform to discuss pain treatment, research and advocacy.

If you would like to appear in an episode of The Healing Pain Podcast or know someone with an incredible story of overcoming pain contact Dr. Joe Tatta at [email protected]. Experts from the fields of medicine, physical therapy, chiropractic, nutrition, psychology, spirituality, personal development and more are welcome.

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