Dr. Joe Tatta:                Thank you for joining me again on the healing pain summit. I’m your host, Dr. Joe Tatta. It’s great to be here with you today on the summit. I am speaking with Dr. Jerry Bailey. He’s a chiropractic physician specializing in holistic family practice using acupuncture, functional medicine, nutrition, metabolic testing, hormone testing, herbal medicine, chiropractic to help his patients recover from chronic disease and move them toward a place of wellness. Dr. Bailey is also an adjunct faculty for the master’s science and human nutrition and functional medicine program at the University of Western States. He is in practice in Iowa as well as Oregon. Dr. Jerry Bailey, welcome to the healing pain summit. It’s great to have you on as an expert guest this year. Thank you. I’m glad to be here. So you have a really interesting mix of degrees. So I’d like to see for you to share with everyone what those degrees are and how you kind of landed in each one and how you found each one of those.

Dr. Bailey:                     Sure. Uh, I have four degrees. I have a bachelor of applied arts in exercise physiology and nutrition from central Michigan university. I have a master’s in human nutrition and functional medicine from the University of Western States. I also have a doctor of chiropractic from the University of Western States, uh, when it used to be Western States chiropractic college. And then I also have an acupuncture degree from the international Academy of medical acupuncture and Arizona. Uh, how it came about, about those, uh, undergrad, I kind of focused on the health and nutrition is what I was interested in. And it was looking at going to a conventional medical school at that point in time to be cardiology. That’s kind of what I focused on with the undergrad was uh, cardio, cardiac rehab. And then so did that, did that program, did my internship and then I was working hand in hand with cardiologist and the cardiothoracic surgeons and I was like, Hey, I want to do cardiothoracic surgery.

Dr. Bailey:                     Like that’s the route I want to go. That’s what I want to do. And so I took some time and interviewed and talked to the cardiothoracic surgeons. And at that time in the early nineties, they were like, you know, life’s pretty stressful doing this job and you don’t, you help people but you don’t feel satisfied. I said, well, okay, thanks for killing the dream. Uh, what do I, what do I need to do? What should I do? And they’re like, do prevention. And so my wife, dr Pamela had fun. She was kind of going the same route for primary care, essentially looking at MD or D O programs. Did some observation hours with some physicians and didn’t like what she was getting exposed to. Um, and so we kind of fell into natural medicine. They were like, do prevention and she found nature pathic and I found chiropractic and went down that route, uh, to head that way.

Dr. Bailey:                     Um, loved the chiropractic that I do the adjusting love the nutrition that they do to help people’s lives. Um, that sequentially went into chiropractic school from there. Uh, and then also did the acupuncture program to be another adjunct to help with pain management for my patients. Uh, and then, which was a phenomenal addition to the practice. It boosts hugely. People are more willing to see a chiropractor, a lot of if they do other things versus just kind of that adjusting process there. And then it naturally built into the master’s degree at University of Western States, uh, in human nutrition and functional medicine. It was, I looked at several different programs and kind of was like, you know, I look for a certification program, do I look for a master’s degree? And in my mind from the academic standpoint is that master’s degree is so much more marketable and so much more knowledgeable, uh, for that process, uh, versus a certification.

Dr. Bailey:                     And so for myself it was, let’s get that master’s degree. Yeah. So did you practice a traditional quote unquote traditional chiropractic for a couple of years before you mentioned into the functional medicine space? Uh, I always did a bit of nutrition with, with my practice, uh, when I first opened my practice, it was kind of just adjusting and some physical therapy type things. And then I was recruited by two primary care here, doc, two primary care doctors here and laying to be joined them in practice. And so for about two and a half years, I worked with them as their chiropractor within office and did strictly a manipulation, physical medicine type things. Uh, and then, uh, my wife came, she graduated from school, came here, and then we opened up together and it just went back to kind of doing everything I do as far as nutritional stuff and then chiropractic, uh, and the, and the acupuncture.

Dr. Bailey:                     And also, and really in the 16 years that I’ve been in practice, the amount of information and research and education to, to balance out, uh, you know, what we’re doing as just immensely grown and, and hugely affected practice itself are practitioners from all realms. Yeah, that’s true. All the health professions are really, you know, on a kind of fast track to learn as much information as you can’t get it changing so fast, especially in the functional medicine world. So, yeah. Your daily practice, what percent of your patients would you say, um, have complaints of pain or struggle with, you know, chronic pain? So pain that lasts more than three months? Uh, majority, usually about 70% are in for pain itself. From a wide range of things, whether it’s a structural issue itself from a chiropractic perspective, uh, muscular balance with acupuncture or soft tissue work and then definitely nutritional aspects from it too.

Dr. Bailey:                     And that’s a huge thing that we’re seeing more and more of is that that nutritional imbalances that are creating chronic inflammation and chronic pain in these patients. Right. So we’re going to talk about mitochondrial function or dysfunction today on the summit and it can become a topic. So we have Craig tech practitioners as well as patients watching the summit. So can you kind of distill for us in simple terms, what is the mitochondria and why are they so important becomes to pain inflammation? Yeah. Mitochondria are these very tiny little furnaces. I call them within each cell of the body. And what that does is it produces our energy and produces our ATP or energy in that sort there. Without having that energy production, we don’t have the physiological capabilities to detoxify the body, to make sure nerves function the way they’re supposed to, to make sure digestion works, to make sure we breathe, to make sure our heart pumps, to make sure our brain functions. So without those little cells within ourselves that are producing the energy we need to function, we start getting sick, we start getting pain, we start developing all those chronic health conditions.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. And what parts of the body are the mitochondria most dense at? Are they in more than one part of the body versus the other or certain cells versus others?

Dr. Bailey:                     Uh, mostly muscle tissue is where they’re mostly does that because the amount of energy that the muscle tissues need. Uh, so that includes heart, you know, digestive organs, and then the muscle tissue in and of itself too, there and everywhere. But red blood cells and white blood cells, uh, they produce the energy for ourselves to be able to do what they do.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. And when it comes to keep your mitochondria healthy, where do people kind of get into trouble as far as things that negatively affect mitochondrial function?

Dr. Bailey:                     Diet is always number one. Dice the hugest thing that we do to ourselves that causes the problems. Our standard American diet, that high carbohydrate, high saturated fat diet that we have a high sugar diet that causes the majority of the problems. That diet increases inflammation in the body as we increase inflammation from the multiple pathways or whether it’s through the NF Kappa B, which is well known or it’s through the interleukin pathways, whether it’s through, um, a couple more or less known ones that we know in the academic world, the M tours and the Fox P threes. But as those inflammatory pathways increased significantly, mitochondria function shuts down. And so instead of having a good high energy level of mitochondria function, it starts shutting down. And so when those mitochondria then reproduce and go on to reproduce themselves cause they die off after awhile, those new generation mitochondria are performing less and less functions in the way they should be.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                I, it’s always number one. Yup. What things in the diet are people kind of doing wrong? Shall we say that that caused inflammation? Is it, you know, more than my macronutrients and more mighten you know, micronutrients they should focus on what, what should they be focused on as far as healthy mitochondria function? Um, both,

Dr. Bailey:                     they would need to look at that. Mitochondria from a macro function, what those carpets are, carbs, fats and proteins are taking in. But definitely from that micro nutrient function, there are two vitamins and minerals, the phytonutrients, the chemicals all within the plants. It’s phytochemicals within plants that we shouldn’t be getting in. So what I educate people on is really looking at a whole food diet versus looking at, um, you know, kind of a high process that we want eliminate those processed screens. They produce inflammation, they’re high sugar, they cause the problems. A key that I always tell people is let’s take out anything that comes in a box beggar can, are made by man. Those things, if you take it out of the diet, you’re down to very a very, very diet of nutrients, of, of highly densely nutrient calorie nutrient diet. But a low calorie diet at that point. So it’s a lot of vegetables, low amount of fruit, great. I’m a good amount of protein and a good amount of fat in the diet. You’re going to get a highly nutrient dense diet at that point. Also a good macro diet for the carbs, fats and proteins. And that’s going to take care of that. You actually caused those mitochondria to regenerate themselves in a higher functioning state and they start producing more and more energy that way.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                I said it’s kind of a good, so you said if it comes in a box, a bag, a can are made by man, don’t touch it. It’s a good way to kind of start your first, you know, dietary change. Um, so looking at the kind of, you know, macronutrient ratios, is there a ratio of carbs, fats, and protein that you recommend for someone who is going to change their, their nutrition habits?

Dr. Bailey:                     Yeah, we look at, we want them to be around 50% carbohydrate, uh, and then the rest of that can be a split. If they’re doing a lot of exercise, we want to have a little more protein in the diet so we can put them at a 30%. Um, if they’re not, then we kind of switched that and have a little more fat in the diet than protein itself. So it kind of that last 50%, we go 30, 20, either way with the fat and protein doing,

Dr. Joe Tatta:                sorry, intro. If someone is doing like physical therapy or you know, we have exercises, should they increase their protein a little bit to meet that demand? Yes, definitely. Definitely.

Dr. Bailey:                     Well certainly that’s going, what’s going to allow them to build that muscle mass back up and re help those nerves start function again from appropriate receptive standpoint so they know where they are in time and space.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. And then what are the key kind of micronutrients that the mitochondria really needs to function and to be healthy and where do people find those in your diet or do they go to supplements for it? Um,

Dr. Bailey:                     diet’s always number one. As I say, there is getting that higher, a good dense vegetable based diet. They’re going to get the nutrients. Loren Cordain, who’s the big paleo guy, he did a study where he looked at, um, the standard American diet and the paleo diet based on a 2000 calorie diet and nutrient density for vitamins and minerals was higher in the paleolithic diet than the standard American diet. The only two that it was decreased in was calcium and vitamin D. but you know, if you’re outside running around, you don’t have to worry about the vitamin D so much. And then the calcium, why some of the research now that we see coming out is the higher calcium levels we’re meeting in the bodies because that calcium acts as a buffer from the acidity of pain and inflammation. And so that’s why we are requiring more calcium levels, their nutrients to really help feed that mitochondria.

Dr. Bailey:                     Uh, you know, uh, cocuten is a huge one. Uh, lipoic acid, SITA, L-carnitine, resveratrol, um, all the B vitamins, particularly nice and drives that, that step one in that search with a three enzyme. We’ll talk a bit about that later. High dose vitamin C is phenomenal for inducing mitochondrial function. Uh, the Ivy vitamin C and dosages up to 50 grams a day has been shown to help numerous cancers. Um, so we’re, we’re big proponents of the IB therapies with vitamin C. ribosome is another phenomenal nutrient to help drive mitochondria function. Uh, your essential fatty acids, the mixed tocopherols and the vitamin E D HTA also helps significantly. Mitochondria, I mean, a big one that’s been out the last two years is that Mito PQQ, that priority low quant alone. I know that one works really well in inducing mitochondrial function and particularly by turning on that when three inside.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. And you mentioned some of the fats. Now the mitochondria have a kind of added layer two, which is mostly fat, which fats are important and what, you know, if someone goes to, let’s say two supplements, of course we’ve taken a food forward approach. If they choose what range might you suggest as far as, um, supplementing with, you know, with fat?

Dr. Bailey:                     Well, they like essential fatty acids are the Omega threes are those things. DHA, DHA. So the docosahexaenoic acid there is really important in the actual shell of the mitochondria itself. It actually is required for the school of scientific, the succinate dehydrogenase enzyme within the Krebs cycle to help production of ATP. But it also is required within the electron transport chain. So if you don’t have Daj and D H a in particular, um, your mitochondria is not going to function as well. So I use a balance approach with my essential fatty acids. I try to get them at least three grams a day of EPA and DHA. Um, the, the more sick person is, the more inflammation they have. We can bump that up to eight grams a day with the EPA and DHA, uh, content within the fish oils, make it that assets to get that. Then we want to make sure we balanced that out with, um, some gamma linolenic acid or borage oil that they’re usually about up to about eight grams a day. We want to get about a gram of the orange oil of that. Also the gamma linolenic acid to keep that balance here so we don’t get too skewed one way or the other.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. And can you, can you talk to us about something called the cert key regulator and why that’s important and mitochondria function?

Dr. Bailey:                     Sure. Yeah. The cert three enzyme itself is the key enzyme that starts the electron transport chain. So it starts that aerobics metabolism, uh, to produce ATP. We still produce ATP anaerobically, which is a smaller amount of energy production there. But that search when three is the key one, particularly in phase one, there’s five steps in the electron transport chain. And if that first one does not kick on, you don’t produce ATP aerobically. So it’s key and that one gets shut down by oxidative stress. So environmental pollutants and contaminants stress within the body itself induces that from too much inflammation from the NF Kappa B, like we talked about the mentor, the Fox be three pathways, the interleukin pathway. So all those pathways that are producing inflammation tell that search when three to shut down the diet high in carbohydrate and simple carbohydrates shuts down that mitochondria function.

Dr. Bailey:                     Immune suppression shuts it down. A dysbiosis or CBOs, small intestine, small intestinal bacteria overgrowth also shuts that down. Vitamin deficiencies, essential fatty acids deficiencies. All those things shut down that cert two and three. So if you can look at it and say, if we have this step process going through, but in the first step, if we have all this stuff shutting it down, we got no production whatsoever further down that chain. So we do those things, changing diet and those nutrients to get that search when three to kick up. So then we started seeing energy production tick off, which in turn helps with pain.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. You know, traditional physicians are not really talking about mitochondrial function or dysfunction when it comes to pain. So there’s a lot of different reasons for pain and a lot of different diagnoses out there. But what diagnoses should you be concerned about as far as mitochondrial dysfunction goes?

Dr. Bailey:                     Uh, so looking at what diseases are particularly, there’s a mitochondrial dysfunction part of it, pretty much. Most pretty much most diseases have a mitochondrial component to it. Uh, when you’re sending that, when anytime there’s inflammation or pain or anything going on the body, you’re shutting down microcredit chondral function, uh, chronic chronic inflammation, chronic diseases, um, your Alzheimer’s, your brain dysfunctions, nerve pain. It’s all related to mitochondrial dysfunction. It’s kind of the root of a lot of things. And as we’re giving these nutrients to people, no matter what we’re doing, we’re stimulating mitochondria function. So they start functioning better. Uh, the ones that are bad, they start dying off and the good ones start reproducing. So we increase the energy production that way. So pretty much any disease process we’re affecting mitochondrial function within there. A great quote that I, I learned a couple of years ago from a pharmacist was, was we’d asked him like, well, when you give us a pharmaceutical as somebody, what do you change? What’s really are you changing? And his first statement was mitochondrial function. And so, so we kind of paraphrase that with him and said, so you can say, whenever we give a drug, a pharmaceutical to somebody, we’re changing our mitochondria to make them not function as well. And he’s like, exactly.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. It’s so interesting. And I guess that leads to the next question. Other drugs that can negatively affect the mitochondria that people should be aware of. Um, you know, if they’re taking, you know, certain drugs on a regular basis,

Dr. Bailey:                     uh, your status, your status are your primary, the ones your cholesterol lowering drugs. They particularly hit an enzyme that not only shuts down a cholesterol function, but it also shuts down that co Q 10, that coenzyme Q 10, uh, production there. So without co Q 10, you don’t have, again, that electron transport chain. I think that one fits in on the third one in the, in the chain that if that is not hitting that one, if we’re not getting cocuten. And again, we don’t produce ATP real quick way. So Statens are a huge one. And that’s why when patients go on Statens, we immediately put them on 300 milligrams of Coke 10. And that’s kind of becoming a standardized approach from those higher tech was more functional based cardiologists or internists know that if I’m putting this person on the stat and we have to have Coke two 10 in there, otherwise they’re going to develop muscle pain, muscle myopathy, muscle inflammation, there’s going to create that fatigue and swelling pain in their body.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                I was gonna say I’ve many drugs can cause nutritional deficiencies, which can affect your mitochondrial function.

Dr. Bailey:                     Yes, exactly. Pretty much like, as I said, that broad based statement of there isn’t a drug on the market that doesn’t affect mitochondrial function either by a nutrition deficiency or by shutting an enzyme within their down. So it doesn’t produce the robe robotically produced energy.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                Yeah. What kind of tests do you use in clinical practice to assess mitochondria function? Or are there tests that you can use?

Dr. Bailey:                     Yeah, the organics you’re in inorganics tests, uh, from, um, Genova. Oh, that’s a great one. There are several other companies that do similar testing within there and those tests, uh, really look at how well the Krebs cycle is going along with that, uh, electron transport chain. So that was a really good test to run, to really see what’s going on within that mitochondria itself. And those tests that are covered by insurance or does someone have to pay for that to be out of pocket or just depending on the plan or, uh, it’s out of pocket, but it’s relatively inexpensive. When you look at particularly the one we run through a particular particular nutrition company that set up with Genova to run the test is, it’s inexpensive. I mean it’s a, you know, the retail I think is about 500 on it and you can change, you can offer it for a discount price if you want to in different ways.

Dr. Bailey:                     But that’s an affordable test. Your average blood work, if we run a thyroid panel, for example, through your insurance, it’s about 12 to 1400 bucks or better for our thyroid testing. Look at five different things. Whereas that you’re an organics, we’re looking at 42 different metabolites to see what’s going on with your body and then figuring out from there what to do. So for 500 bucks or less, that’s a pretty good inexpensive test to find out how your body’s functioning on multiple levels. Is that something you use frequently with people who come, who come to you with chronic pain, you use that test with them too? Um, yeah, that’s one of the main, that’s one of the main ones we’ll use. So look at it. We’ll do the standard blood work to see if we catch anything either hormonally thyroid or inflammation within the blood itself or any kind of disease process that could be occurring.

Dr. Bailey:                     Um, we take those values and then we definitely shrink them down so that when we get a little more functional state of the body versus the wide ranges of zero to 10 for things, you know, we want to get it more narrowed within there. So we’ll narrow those blood works down, but then we’ll run the urine organics test, which is a phenomenal test. We can run the Dutch test for hormones if there’s a hormone component with that in particularly in women. But we also see it with men too. I’ve seen a rash of including myself, estrogen dominance and then in the last six months, why not? Sure it could be from environmental glutens that way, but that affects mitochondria function because the men that I’ve seen with this issue, they’ve have chronic pain from it too. But we’re seeing this underlying hormonal issue, which is causing mitochondria dysfunction also.

Dr. Bailey:                     And how do you involve environmental pollutants affect a man’s estrogen level and say, well, you’re looking at your ear, uh, your, uh, endocrine disruptors, so it can block testosterone production and it can hit the endocrine disruptors can actually hit there and shut down. Um, the, excuse me, the testosterone production, but it can also increase estrogen production men too. It can shut down. We can shut down the recycled, the, the cycling aspects of pulling that hormone out and getting it out. It can keep it elevated in the body for awhile also too. And what are those toxins that a man maybe should be concerned about if they’re thinking, Oh, maybe I have this, cause I, I, you know, tried everything else. Basically, you know, environmental toxins. Uh, BPA, bisphenol a, that’s a huge one that’s in plastic. So let’s avoid all plastics are that as best we can.

Dr. Bailey:                     Um, even the ones that are, say they’re BPA free, I think it’s BPA, B or VPB in there that actually is also an endocrine disruptor too. It’s a lesser a form of one, but that’s causing issues itself and people your food supply, let’s look alone at uh, using Roundup on prime that’s being sprayed on everything. That’s a huge one that, uh, causes endocrine disruption in both men and women and then not alone. Not only does that is, it affects the microbiome with energy. I track which changes and causes inflammation that way too. Um, so, you know, there’s an interesting study that was just came out. It was actually a review of the, um, uh, Roundup itself and it looked at that, that glyphosate itself is not necessarily toxic is a, it’s, it’s, it’s toxic level. It was pretty high before it causes a problem. So it’s, it’s parts per million has to be pretty high to cause an issue.

Dr. Bailey:                     Whereas now when you go to the Roundup or the other sprays, those ones itself, they add a salt to it and that salt increases the absorption rate of that product. So now you’ve increased the absorption of the thing. Now the toxicity level is, is, is that occurs uses less than less amount. So when you hear those quotes from things of like, Oh, know Roundup’s perfectly safe, it’s, you know,…perfectly safe in small doses of the compound itself relative, she gets pretty safe. But when you add that salt to it and all the other things that are in the, in the sprays, that’s when it increases the absorption and causes the problems. Fascinating. And obviously, you know, a lot of crops are sprayed, especially the GMO crops are spraying be quite for sleep to prevent things from growing on them, obviously. Very much so. Very much so.

Dr. Bailey:                     And, and I mean by the 55 gallon drum every day, um, it’s being used on everything. Yeah. So we have a chronic pain epidemic in this country and part of that has kind of elevated a opioid epidemic with it. Um, tell me how functional medicine and natural medicine can be a way to get ourselves out of that. Uh, well the, the pain management aspect from the nutritionally changing the body, changing the function of the nerves, the mitochondria, that’s a huge aspect of getting, getting that functioning occurring there. Uh, acupuncture is a phenomenal benefit to help with opioid addiction. There’s been several studies that have come out recently that shown doing acupuncture pre and post surgery decreases the use significantly of all opioid medications. Um, quite a few of the drug courts like in Oregon and in other States for those, those people who are addicted to the opioids.

Dr. Bailey:                     Other thing is, it’s not mandatory jail sentence unless they choose that they send them through a drug rehab program that includes acupuncture because acupuncture significantly decreases the brain response to those opioids and helps reprogram it. So there’s no longer than addiction to current. I know you’re also a licensed acupuncturist. So if someone came to you, let’s say with chronic back pain, what would be a typical course of acupuncture you would do for your pain? How would that work? Sure. Ideally, you know, it’s figuring out the cause of it. So let’s say it’s a chronic inflammation, chronic muscle imbalance there. Um, I’ve either adjusted them for a little bit as there was any mechanical issue, then I’ll use the acupuncture and cupping to help get those muscles to heal and that’s the process that I see occur is in examining that patient is is it mechanical related or is it muscular imbalance?

Dr. Bailey:                     There is a mechanical and a sensitive is a joint causing or a discogenic type nature or is it the musculature that’s causing it and nerve function when it gets there then I know acupuncture and companies company is going to really help affect that. I use a technique called circle the dragon with my acupuncture and basically it’s filling that area where the pain is with a bunch of needles and so the body can focus on that to get it to heal through six different ways. Chinese medicine, uh, you know, 4,000 plus years old has a great story of this wonderful cheese, the flow of energy through the universe and through the body. 4,000 years ago, that’s what they understood. They really understood the nature and the balance there. Now we really understand through science of what that is, and it still is. I talk to patients, I’m like, yes, it’s this wonderful romantic thing of CI and this ancient Chinese wisdom.

Dr. Bailey:                     We know so much more now. It’s the balance of hormones, neurotransmitters, the nervous system itself, inflammation, the immune system, ATP production, and then the nervous system. And those things really help get the body to heal. And that’s what we’re focused on with the acupuncture itself. So treating, usually we try to do twice a week for four to six weeks so that way we get at least get eight to 12 treatments. Then with cupping there too to help call it inflammation. And that usually gets people pretty well. Awesome. That’s a really good wrap up. Back can function, I would say. Um, you mentioned coming, which we’ve all seen on the Olympics. A lot of athletes start this all over their body. So I think it’s a force. If we have someone to talk about company, that’d be awesome. So tell us what company cupping is and how that actually helps the body basically.

Dr. Bailey:                     Sure. Coupling itself is using, uh, typically glass jars. Um, that will adhere to the skin by creating a suction in there. And so what that suction do is we take a cotton ball, so can alcohol usually light it on fire and put it inside the cup. What that does is it burns out the oxygen, so that creates a suction. We quickly get that to the skin. What it does then is pull up that skin, that early, that superficial fat layer and lymphatics and helps to pull that up into the cup. In doing so, it creates a suction or vacuum that pulls inflammation out of the surrounding tissue and deep within the tissue too. So the more inflamed a person is, or the more metabolism they have within their muscles, particularly, you see that with athletes and you saw it with Michael Phelps and everything that increased metabolism in the area, the darker that that spot will be, so that darker that red spot will be.

Dr. Bailey:                     So the more inflammation, the more pain a person has, the more increased darkness that will be. So instead of like the massage, pushing that fluid and that edema, that swelling out of the area that can compress the lymphatics, we actually create that suction that pulls it up and get it set out. Then those lymphatics can actually push that fluid and pull it back to the heart and get it into blood supply. That’s all company more interesting. Is that done in conjunction with acupuncture or is it kind of a separate treatment? Either are either or depending on what’s going on with the person, we can do it in conjunction afterwards or we can do it as its own adjunct therapy itself. And I’ve seen, you know, I always warn patients is, you know, it can either be light pink in color or it can be black.

Dr. Bailey:                     Afterwards. I sent one the other day, he’s got a shoulder injury and we did it and he ended up with this huge black spot on there and so that happens. That’s just shows the amount of inflammation this person has in that tissue deeply there. What’s interesting is coming as cross-cultural, I have men, there’s a big population where I am a Eastern block and Russian immigrants that Western Russian, Eastern bloc, European immigrants that their grandparents did that on them when they were kids. So it has nothing to do with Chinese medicine necessarily, but it was multicultural that occurred in creative, that grew that same process of pulling inflammation, getting out of the body, making them feel better.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                So essentially the integrated strategies that are out there. And I love that you kind of combine them all into your practice in, in one setting. Um, I want to thank you for the interview today, but can you tell us where we can find out more about you?

Dr. Bailey:                     Sure. Uh, you can go to our website, Lakeside holistic.com that’s a great website that we have daily information there that links to our Facebook page and everybody, all the other social media is there, but Lakeside allistic.com is our website. And you can go on there and check us out and see all that we do here in our clinic.

Dr. Joe Tatta:                I want to thank Dr. Bailey for being on the healing pain summit. Check him out at Lakeside holistic. So tell me the website one more time. Lakeside holistic.com. Um, you have an opportunity to help them out. So make sure you click the share button down below so you can share this video out on Facebook and on Twitter to help them out. Get their message spread, and we’ll see you next time on the Healing Pain Summit.