Dr. Joe Tatta: Welcome to today’s episode of the healing pain summit. I have a very special guest today. Her name is Dr. Susan Albers and we are talking about how to mindfully eat through a painful episode in your life. So she is a New York Times bestselling author and a clinical psychologist at the Cleveland Clinic who specializes in eating disorders, weight loss, body image concerns, and mindfulness. She is the author of books including the New York Times bestseller, Eat Q. She has been in almost every popular magazine from shape to Oprah to prevention as well as Dr. Oz. And she has a new book coming out in a couple of months, which you’ll be sharing with you at the end of this interview. So Dr. Susan Albers, welcome to the Healing Pain Summit.
Dr. Albers: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. And particularly that you have acknowledged that connection between pain and emotional eating because I think so many people struggle with it that we can get very focused and I don’t have to tell you, cause I know you’re, that you’re an expert on the physical aspects. And miss the emotions behind it and those are just as important to heal because of the cascading effect on the rest of your life. So thank you for having me as a guest.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. Thank you for acknowledging that because obviously our emotions have so much to do with our ability to heal and recover, but to, you know, to get us started off, tell us about the work you do in your clinic, you know, in your practice there at the Cleveland clinic and tell us, you know why that work is so important to you.
Dr. Albers: I would love to tell you, and I’d love to tell you in particular too because I think it’s a great lead in for understanding that connection between pain and emotional eating and attempts of people who can benefit from mindful eating. And so I work here at the, to the clinic and I see people every day who struggled with kinds of definitions, issues. Some of it’s physical pain, particularly because I work in a medical setting. I get many referrals or dealing with coping with physical pain. Also, depression, anxiety, eating issues. My favorite of course, is working with eating issues. And my mission is to help people to eat in a more mindful way to stop dieting using all of those crazy strategies lose 10 pounds in two days, you know, that that kind of thing. And to give people strategies that are clinically based and it really works that are easy and that are smart as so many of my clients who come in are smart people, you see, Oh, is that teachers all across the board and they’re ready for something that’s different.
Dr. Albers: So I started working with eating issues in about two year, 2000 and I’ll tell you about a kind of a profound experience of a client that changed everything for me. Just really just was a very important moment in my mission and spreading the word about my bleeding. And I was working with a woman who is about in her forties and she came in and she said, she started off the session by saying, okay, never told anyone, never told anybody this. So of course, you know, sort of praise myself of what Susan say. And she talks about years and years of just dieting and try to lose weight, gaining it, losing it, a lot of emotional eating and just tearing this rolling down her cheeks. You could feel her pain could feel her pain about it. And we talked about it for a while and of course at that time I was a new, a new therapist and wanting to do a good job instead of homeless and give her a list of all these books that she could read that were going to help.
Dr. Albers: So she went home, she came back and… How did it go? How did you know? Did you pick one of these books to read? Is it helpful? And it was this sort of light bulb moment of what she said to me that I’ll never forget. She, she gave me the list and she said, now what would be the spot less? She said, do you notice something about a lot of the titles group close look, and it said things like obesity and deadly diets and all of these different words, credibly shaming and we’re, we’re in fine failure. You know, that electric of willpower and things like that. And I thought, wow, here’s this woman who came in who told me biggest secret for babies struggle ever. And um, unknowingly I was sort of perpetuating some of that shame and felt that she was feeling that made it so unsuccessful and led to a lot of promotional in it.
Dr. Albers: So I literally, I went home that night. I created my entire outline for my book and my mindful eating, which was my first book. And I chose my eating because mindfulness is something that is very healing. And I’m sure that you talk a lot about that in your summit of how mindfulness can be feeling for pain. And I wrote down everything that I knew about mindfulness and applied it to eating. And I’m now traveling the world talking about it, writing about mindful eating, of giving people a way to cope with the pain that they have in their life, the emotional pain, and in a way that’s healthy, not shaming, wellness focus and they can use for the rest of their life. So here I am,
Dr. Joe Tatta: the great story. What’s so powerful about that story is that as a clinician, obviously you have a psych D so you have a, you know, a clinical doctorate in psychology. I have a clinical doctorate in physical therapy, but so often, you know, in school we learn obviously a lot of theory, but so often our patients are the ones. And through our patient stories we really learn how to take that next step with people and where you know, what’s lacking from the current kind of medical system and what we need to bring into our practice. So thank you for sharing that.
Dr. Albers: Yeah, I definitely agree. I learned from my patients every day. If anybody has ever read any of my books, I have little clients snippets in it because they teach me about real practical ways that you deal with emotional eating. Not the theory, but the practical ways that really, really work. And then I combine that. Of course we sent as well.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. So of course on our, on on this summit, the healing pain summit, we’re talking about pain. Tell us why. Paint, why. Obviously dysfunctional eating or emotional eating is often the first place people turn to when they’re trying to get themselves out of pain.
Dr. Albers: It’s so true. And I think one of the reasons is because it’s a form what we call the three E’s of why we do things. We do things because it’s economical because it’s easy and it’s a factor. And eating when you’re in pain fulfills all of those things. Yes, we turn to it because it’s there, you know, 24 seven and when we look to, so it’s easy, but when we looked to the biology of it, when we, when we turned to comfort foods, there is a chemical reaction that happens if we use our serotonin that feel good chemical that we all have and it changes our sensations. You know that first bite of chocolate where suddenly we’re not thinking about our pain, we’re focusing on that new sensation. But as I say to many of my clients, emotional eating and trying to comfort eat particularly around pain is like trying to put a bandaid on a broken leg. It’s not treating or feeling the root of the problem. So it makes sense that people turn to food to ease their pain. I understand it works, I get it. But what we find in the long run is that it’s so temporary and it leads to other issues as well that come from eating these two breaths to see we’d sit extra weight and sort of weight needs it pain. So it’s such a temporary fix.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. So talk to us about a couple of places where people um, have difficulty where they’re kind of using eating in a, you know, a not so great way to, you know, kind of stop their pain and satisfied, satisfied, different urges that they might have.
Dr. Albers: Yeah. We often turn to food when we’re in pain, whether it’s emotional or physical pain. And part of it I think is also the media as well, is that we have a cognitive connection between, we think that it’s going to heal us, but it doesn’t, a little bit of comfort. Eating is not a terrible thing. That’s okay. Sometimes we can do a little bit of it. Well, where the mistake becomes is when we can say habit and it’s our only primary source of soothing and comforting ourselves. And so what I, with the patients that I work with is that when we can disconnect that automatic response of feel pain, eat for comfort, and insert new pain, something else, it’s soothing and healing, they find that it turns around that connection. Then there’s so many different ways. It’s not often our first response, but in so many different ways that we can find calm and comfort to work through it. Whether it’s mindfulness, whether it’s relaxation techniques or there some cognitive strategies as well that I’m just some soothing that people are struggling to deal with basis.
Dr. Joe Tatta: So, uh, one of the places where people experience pain is at work because they’re sedentary though obviously a lot of times sitting all day, um, they have a lot of pressure on them. Those can be obviously work pressures, that can be financial pressures. Um, there’s peer pressure from your coworkers. What are some strategies people can use at work to helping mindfully get through the day without relying on food for that pressure release?
Dr. Albers: Yes. Well, number one is to make sure that they have enough mindful movement going on. So I sit in my office or maybe on this day and I get up over a few times. And so they, as they say, sitting is the no smoking. So making sure that there’s a piece, a little bit of movement throughout the day, can we help you to feel energized so that you don’t go to the vending machine, go for candy bar to boost up your energy, making sure that you have some kind of movement. So literally you can do some chair yoga, you know, whether it’s just doing some sketches, sometimes I’ll stand up, turn around and um, what my feel on the chair and lean it and just do some really gentle stretches to get some of that movement. So, um, some things that you can do to eat mindfully at work and make sure that you’re not competing is to make sure that you bring only a certain amount of food when you have a lots of food available on your desks or bringing leftovers from home.
Dr. Albers: Sometimes that can make it easy to make a beeline for the comfort meeting. If there’s one thing that I would give to every employee whenever the United States was working, brings them lunch into work is what I want to be known as a bento box. And the vendor box is something that I learned about when I was in Japan. It’s a, sometimes they’re premade meals, they’re very perfectly constant. But what I like about this, you can buy them on the subway and their boxes and they’ve got a few different compartments. What I love about it, I think what is helpful to workers, um, who bring their, is that it’s the same amount. It’s consistent. Whereas when we bring leftovers after dinner, often you just put it in the nearest Tupperware, you put everything in and that may be this much or it may be this much and you just throw the Tupperware and eat whatever it is that you bring. What research indicates about people who are able to maintain their weight is they eat consistent amounts every day. And what’s nice about those bento boxes is that that helps you to ensure that just about the same, not the same thing, just about the same. So that people, it’s helpful.
Dr. Joe Tatta: I love that because obviously we get this kind of portion distortion, um, you know, piling food on our plate or if we go someplace and we order food, obviously someone else chooses the portion for us.
Dr. Albers: Exactly. Also, one way to help to lessen your stress at work and this is so much easier said than done, is to not multitask when you eat. The motto is eat just eat. And often I’ll swivel away from my desk just to make sure that my computer, that’s something you’re calling my name doesn’t get my attention and why like so that could be something that is really helpful and you don’t have to take a lot of time eating, just give it all of your attention.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. I wanted to ask you about time cause I’ve watched people eat before just observing people, you know, at work or in my own family and some people, you know, really will kind of attack their food almost. Um, some people eat a little bit slower. Talk about the kind of rhythm of our eating if you can.
Dr. Albers: Yes, you are right onto that. And what it’s like logical research shows is that we participate in what’s called behavioral mimicry. We just tend to mirror the people that we’re with, whether it’s eating or dressing or the way that they act or walk or the things they say. So it makes a sense with chewing as well. There’s some studies that have looked at, even strangers when they sit down with each other, we tend to eat at the same rate. So one thing that can be important when you’re starting to eat more mindfully is to tune into how quickly the people around you are eating, whether it’s your family, your coworkers, because you’re going to jump right in basically with them. It’s almost like a line dance. Now we tend to just jump right in there and you can stagger your bites with them and just intentionally, either a little bit slower. My motto is pace. Don’t grips.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Hmm. Excellent. Based on race. I love that. We should always remember that pace. Don’t raise. So I want to shift gears to kids for a minute because the obesity rate amongst kids is just as poor as it is amongst our adults in America. And I know that, you know, you and I have spoke before eating habits started a very young age. So what can parents really do in the home? They set their kids in the right path so that they’re not going down, you know, place where they’re not eating mindfully in their home.
Dr. Albers: Well, it’s, it’s, and it’s so important to start early and parents think that, um, you know, they have to, kids have to get a little bit older to understand these concepts of mindful eating early in kids’ lives. For example, I’ve a a five year old and the other day he was watching some TV and he turns, it means that mommy, it’s could we do is not a mindful eater. And I was like, no, your wife, because he pops in, those can be snacks and he takes the sandwich and just like, look like this doesn’t hit you. And, and I thought, wow, this kid at age five gets the concept of my book. Perfect. So it’s very easy for kids to pick it up. And what I tell parents is to focus on five things to get it started and they’re there but difficult concepts and you can model them and that’s the best way to teach because you know, I don’t sit my down, my five year old and give them a lecture on mindful eating.
Dr. Albers: Hopefully, um, you know, um, I’m modeling cause he wouldn’t sit still that long. So number one is to parents run, you know, run and get stuff. It’s milk and you know, sit down, sit down at the table with your family and eating and not being, not eating in the car, you know, feeding your kids over the backseat. Very tempting. Number two is teaching kids have the same effect to pay attention and tune in when they took a bite. So you know, and talk about, you said tastes like tea you want eat, that kind of thing. So it really taste it and experience it. Really just something that’s fine. Eating some broccoli here.
Dr. Albers: The next one is to slow down what we just talked about is teaching kids maybe turn that into a fun game. Yeah, so the one where we’ll be changing the rate and that we can sit here as well. And some of it you won’t even have to say as we were talking about that behavior as well. Next one, this is my five S model. So that fourth S is to simplify. And what that means is to create an environment. Oh it’s in a way, and how you do that is to place foods. We’re creatures of convenience. Even little kids, they will go for the things they can read. So in your refrigerator maybe there is a door that they can make them great, you know, it’s take out the other things and put them somewhere else so that they can grab a snack if they want it, you’re going to be teaching them a good, a really great habit of that they can regulate their own Belfort snack when they want to and they don’t have to get up here at the bar. That’s a help. And then the last one is just kind of fun. The last is to smile. And of course that’s just to do what that is about is taking Foz between bites. Think about how fun you could do it. I’m doing different kinds of smiles of Mona Lisa smile, a Buddha smile, smile. But you’re taking this pause between bites and that’s something people have to ask themselves.
Dr. Albers: Often an adult is asking them not more, but at some point they have to start regulating instead of the parents. So as you can see there’s five absences and parents can start working on this.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. I love that. So the five S’s of mindful eating for your kids. Um, I’m talking with Dr. Susan Albert. He is a New York times bestselling author of six walls. She’s had six books. One is a New York times best selling book. You have almost like a whole PhD thesis of books basically, which is just great.
Dr. Albers: Well I’ve come in so passionate about it. I keep, I keep having to get the word out there about it.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. So if people want to hear more about you and you know, follow you in your mission about mindful eating, where can they learn about you?
Dr. Albers: They can go to my blog or my, I’m sorry, my website which is eating mindfully.com and actually the new book that is coming out that I’m so excited about and that if you are in pain, this is the perfect book for you because it’s called 50 more ways to soothe yourself without food and it’s the followup to my previous book, 50 ways to suit yourself without food, so it’s exactly what we’ve been talking about today is finding other ways to comfort and calm yourself and they’re just really fun strategies that work that would fill those three E’s I talked about before. Economical are all the techniques in the book are some of them, a lot of them don’t cost any money whatsoever. They’re easy in that you can do them in minute, five minutes or less and they’re effective all based on clinical research. The first book that I wrote, they were more kind of cognitive behavioral strategies. And the one that’s coming out next are more alternative Benson case, you know, relaxation, massage, meditation. And I encourage anybody just to look through and see if these techniques would work for them.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. And you know, one of the things I love about your approach is that when you eat mindfully, you don’t really have to focus on, you know, taking big things out of your diet or depriving yourself of things. Um, and you’re obviously a Testament to that because you’re in such great shape, but,
Dr. Albers: and I love you. I love you.
Dr. Joe Tatta: I was going to say, tell us what your favorite food is.
Dr. Albers: My very favorite food. Oh geez. I see it. And that’s all because I like so many different bets. I completely agree with what you were saying about, um, you don’t have to eliminate certain food grids. I think that when we become a more mindful eater, you have more choosy about your, your foods and you develop your taste buds more specifically. And saver foods. It’s almost like a wine connoisseur that once they maybe get into drinking wine, they can take a step. No. Do they like it or not in it? And a very choosy. So wine smells. So Michael eaters come a little bit of food staff because they are so in tune with their taste. I really like foods that are spicy. Anything to it. I’m all about it. And maybe that’s because I, I’ve been so tuned into my flavors, so any, any kind of spicy food, I’m there.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. Thanks so much for sharing that. So I’ve been talking with dr Susan Albers. Um, she’s the author of Each Cue and she has a new book coming out, so make sure to follow her on her blog, um, mindful eating and you’d be mindfully.com so that’s eating mindfully.com and the links are below in her, um, her bio and on the website for the Healing Pain Summit. And I want to thank her for being here. I want to thank you for listening today and we will see you in the next episode.
Dr. Albers: Thanks so much.
