Dr. Joe Tatta:
Okay. Welcome to today’s edition of the Healing Pain Summit. I am Joe Tatta physical therapists and I’m here with Dr. Tom O’Bryan and we are talking about finding the root cause of your pain through gluten as the trigger for inflammation. Dr. Tom O’Bryan is an internationally recognized speaker and workshop leader specializing in the complications of non-celiac gluten sensitivity and celiac disease and the car inside and outside the intestine. He’s the founder of www, the doctor.com. He’s also the host of the gluten summit, which brings together 29 of the world’s experts on celiac disease and Nanci like gluten sensitivity. You can find more about that at theglutensummit.com and with that introduction, Dr. Tom O’Bryan, welcome to the healing pain summit.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be with you. Thank you.

Dr. Joe Tatta:
So we’re talking about how to take our finger off the trigger of pain in our life and we’re talking about gluten as that trigger. Talk to us about non-celiac gluten sensitivity and celiac disease. High start. Start out with some stats for us.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Sure. Um, uh, first, um, maybe a little backup about pain in most cases, especially chronic pain. I’m sure your listeners are learning from all of the speakers that one of the mechanisms, a primary mechanism we have to look at when there’s longterm pain in a snap because you fell down and broke your elbow. But there are some other types of pain is that there’s an inflammatory process going on. There is inflammation occurring and as far as I know, every disease, every disease at the cellular level is a disease of inflammation. Almost all of them, I shouldn’t say every, almost all of them. And pain, chronic pain. The most common approach is an antiinflammatory approach. And the question is, do you have to use pharmaceuticals for that exclusively? So there’s a basic premise if the cell’s on fire and if that cell on fires contributing to the pain you have, one of the basic premises is stop throwing gasoline on the fire.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
And that’s where food sensitivities come into play. You may be eating a food that as far as you know, is a good food. It’s a healthy food, it’s good for you. You grew up on it and it’s fine, but if it is a food that your body is sensitive to, it doesn’t have to make you sick where you get stomach pains or you throw up or there’s some obvious sign, you eat it, you get sick. It can easily be you don’t associate your occasional seizures or your headaches or your migraines with the food you ate yesterday. You don’t associate it. I mean, sometimes there’s a quick response within a short period of time after eating a food that you’re sensitive to, but sometimes it’s called a delayed hypersensitivity response and it may occur within 72 hours of eating the food. So if you’re eating a food that you’re sensitive to, you don’t know, you’re sensitive to it because it doesn’t make you sick right away.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
And within three days you get your symptoms, whether it’s elbow pain or it’s migraines or as pain behind your eye or nerve pain or muscle pain. But if it was, if it’s the gasoline on the fire that made it worse, you’ll never know that that is the trigger that keeps fueling the fire. That’s why it’s important to look at, am I sensitive to any foods that are contributing to this chronic condition I have? It’s a very rational approach. It’s a grounded approach. It’s not a pie in the sky airy fairy. Everyone’s sensitive to gluten kind of approach. It really is. Do I have a food sensitivity that’s contributing to the problems I’m currently experiencing now, the most common food sensitivity happens to be gluten. That’s why you’re hearing this whole world of research and articles coming out about gluten and then the naysayers that say, Oh, there’s no such thing if you don’t have celiac disease.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Nonsense, uh, gluten-related disorder centers that those, those facilities, those clinics are authorized by the government to make a diagnosis. If a person has a disorder, any complaint because of a sensitivity to gluten, not just celiac disease. And why those 37 centers? Because if you get a diagnosis from one of these clinics, the government gives you a credit towards your food bill. So it’s like giving you food stamps. It’s not quite the same as in the U S but you get the credit and in Italy you can order the best Luton free foods at the pharmacy. You place order to the pharmacy the next day you’ve got gluten-free croissants or gluten, very fresh pasta. Yeah, well, whatever you want. So if you’ve got this prescription from one of these centers certified by the government as a gluten related disorder center, Ben, you get credit. That’s why those centers are important.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
So they did a study of those 37 centers over, I think it was four years. It may have been six, I’m not sure, but they looked at 17,000 patients, 17 I was in people that came in and there were gastroenterology clinics, part of those pediatric clinics, allergy clinics, internal medicine clinics across the gamut of medicine. And what did they find? Those 17,000 patients. Of course there are people that have a sensitivity to gluten that don’t have celiac disease. There are people that have sensitivity to tomatoes. You can be sensitive to any food, but of course gluten is one of those foods that you may be sensitive to. It happens to be the most common food that people are sensitive to. And what are the symptoms that they notice for those people that the diagnosis of a non-celiac Luton related disorder, what were the symptoms? 67% of them had a lack of wellbeing.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
They just didn’t feel good. They were hurting. They were just didn’t feel good. 64% had fatigue. 56% I think it was head pain. Important to look at the food eating, give me a break. No, it doesn’t matter what you eat. Of course it matters. You know it’s like put bad gas in your car. If you’re driving a Ferrari and expect the car to run well it’s going to run like a Volkswagen and Volkswagens are nice cars, but like an old Volkswagen. Right? Right. Of course the food, we’d have something to do with how our body functions. So 17,000 people is a huge study. Most studies are done on 50 a hundred people. Talk to us about the foods that people need to be wary of when we start talking about gluten. Cause obviously, you know, we’re educating people on what to be eating for their health.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
So what they have to be cautious of. It’s a really good question. Um, so the premise on that is gluten is not bad for you. Bad gluten is bad for you. And there’s a difference. Gluten is in most grains. It’s in rice, it’s in corn, it’s in barley, it’s in rye, it’s in wheat. There are many grains that have the gluten family of proteins in them. But there’s one specific family of gluten proteins that are in wheat, rye and barley. Those three grains have the proteins in them that are toxic to humans. Now that sounds like a big statement. ARVR just published a study in January of this year. They looked at um, uh, four different groups. They looked at people that have celiac disease. Now that’s a disease of the gut. When you have a sensitivity to gluten, it eats up your gut. They looked at people with celiac disease.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
They looked do people with non-celiac gluten sensitivity. So they don’t have celiac disease, but they got a problem with gluten. They looked at celiac disease, patients who were on a gluten free diets, so they were in remission, they felt better, and then they looked at controls. People that had no problem with gluten whatsoever, they looked at all four groups and what did they find? They found that when any of those people, all four groups, when ever they’re exposed to gluten, it turns on the genes for creating intestinal permeability. That’s called the leaky gut. And everyone, every human has that reaction when they eat gluten. So if you don’t know what the leaky gut is, if you go to a site called pub med, that stands for public medical information pub med.gov it’s national library of medicine and it opens up and you immediately have access to 15 million research articles, literally 15 million articles accessible on that search engine, and you type pain and intestinal permeability.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Wham. Here come thousands of articles and how intestinal permeability contributes to pain that people suffer from. So every person that eats gluten, every time they eat it turns on the genes for intestinal permeability. Every person, not just celiacs that just came out this year. It’s cutting edge information. I think what you just said is so important as far as gluten turning on the gene cause we have both clinicians as well as patients on this summit. Talk about that. Just a little bit of how that is the key that turns on genes and how that gene relates to our health. You bet. So we know now the genes control function that genes are the master switches that turn on and turn off a particular function in the body. So if your, if your heart muscle is going to contract to push blood, there is a gene that turns on the muscle to do that.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Um, if your eyes are blue eyes, there is a gene that made those eyes developed blue color when you were in utero. The genes control all function in our body and what turns genes on and turns genes off is the basis of all pharmaceutical and nutritional health care. You take vitamin C because you want to strengthen your immune system. Vitamin C works because it turns on the genes that activate the white blood cells to work stronger and better for you and many other functions, but it’s the genes that are the switch that turns on and turns off our function. So gluten turns on the genes in the gut for intestinal permeability, the leaky gut. Now, the fastest grow is growing cells in your body are the inside lining of your gut. Every three days, three to seven days, you have a whole new lining to your gut.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
It’s like the skin of a snake kind of shed your skin, right? So you have a sandwich for breakfast. It turns on the genes for intestinal permeability, but the gut heals because it’s the fastest growing cells in the body. You have a Stanwich for lunch. Tr tares, the gene or activates the genes, tears the intestines, but in heals, you have pasta for dinner, activates the genes, tears the intestines, but it heals. A cookie, activates the genes, tears the intestines, but it heals crew times on your salad, a little flower in the gravy. It goes on and on and on where we’re exposed to gluten all day every day. It’s the most common food that we’re exposed to and you tear the gut. It heals. You tear the gut, it heals. You tear the gut, it heals, but eventually one day it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
You cross that imaginary line and you don’t heal anymore. It’s called loss of oral tolerance. You don’t heal anymore. Now what happens is you tear the gut and these molecules, this is really important for pain in general. When you eat food foods like a raspberry, you know if you look at a raspberry, it looks the same. All these little parts that look the same. If you look at it on microscope, digestion is breaking down that food into each little part of the raspberry, break it down into smaller and smaller and smaller pieces. Until you know your gut, your gut is lined with a cheese cloth and so all those foods coming down through the tube called the intestines. All this going down to there being broken up smaller and smaller and smaller by the enzymes that our stomach mates and our pancreas and our gallbladder, liver, you make these enzymes to break down the food to smaller pieces of the raspberry, smaller pieces, smaller pieces, smaller pieces, and the inside of the tube is lined with cheese cloth.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
So only the really small pieces of food can get through the cheese cloth to get into the bloodstream. That’s how we absorb our nutrients is they’ve got to be broken down really small. They go through the cheese cloth and then the small molecules get into the bloodstream and your body says, Oh good. Here’s some two by fours. I can make new muscle cells are good. Here’s some brick. I can make new bone cells. And so the raw materials come through the cheese cloth to get into the bloodstream so our bodies can use it to make new cells. So our body works. When you get tears in the cheese cloth in your intestines, now you get and you cross the imaginary line so that it stays, and now you have what’s called pathogenic intestinal permeability. Yeah, the terrorists and the cheesecloth. Now these larger molecules get through the tears in the cheese cloth before there’s been enough time for them to be broken down, smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and get through the intact cheese cloth.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
So these larger molecules called macromolecules, big molecules, they come through the terrorists and the cheesecloth into the bloodstream. So now you’ve got these macromolecules circulating through the bloodstream and your me, your immune system goes, Whoa, what’s this? This is not good for me. I better fight this. I can’t use this to make new bone cells or new muscle cells or new nerve hormones called neurotransmitters. I better fight this. Now you start making antibodies to tomatoes. If it was a tomato macromolecule that came through, or you make antibodies to beef or to chicken or to cantaloupe, and you do a 90 food panel blood test to see if you have any food allergies and you come back allergic to 20 different foods and you say, Oh my God, that’s everything I eat. What am I going to eat? Of course everything you eat because your body’s trying to protect you.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
It’s not that your immune system has gone crazy and it’s making you, um, uh, it’s fighting all the foods that you eat because they’re bad foods. No, they didn’t get a chance. They didn’t have a chance to be digested small enough. They went through the tears in the cheesecloth, these macromolecules in the bloodstream, and your body’s trying to fight that food. It makes chemical bullets called cytokines to bite that food. So the first thing you have to do, the very first thing, stop throwing gasoline on the fire. That’s tearing the cheesecloth. That’s going to help with any type of pain that you have because you reduce the inflammatory cascade, you reduce the amount of inflammation in your whole body. So if you have jaw pain, if you have eye pain, if you have migraines, if you have joint pains, if you have arthritic pains from rheumatoid arthritis, any type of pain you have will always do better.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
I’ll say always, we’ll always do better if you reduce the inflammation that’s in your body. And there are many ways to reduce the inflammation, many good nutrients to take that can help many good protocols. Many good treatments, but the first thing, stop throwing gasoline on the fire. So here’s a question goon is involved in. It’s in so many of our foods, and I’ll call them food stuffs, which is really not real food, but you know, food products that are out there. What can someone do? So let you know when you’re home, you know what you’re eating, you know what you’re preparing. What can someone do when they go to a restaurant or on vacation other than ask their waiter exactly what’s in the food. Is there something, a strategy they can use? You bet. The first thing is that they have to ask very directly.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Um, and I’m gonna give you a story on that because this happens to people all the time. We were in a restaurant in the Midwest called Jay Alexanders. It’s a nice, it’s a chain restaurant, nice chain restaurant. And um, we told the waiter we’re gluten free and it’s still no problem. We can make almost all of our dishes gluten free for you. That’s great. That’s great. So, uh, we ordered, my sister ordered a piece of fish just on the grill, a little olive oil and little, um, salt on it. Nothing else. How’s that serve? So, Oh, we serve it over a bed of rice with some mixed vegetables on the side. All right, that sounds very clean. I don’t want any sauce or anything on it. I said, make sure to tell the chef that we’re gluten free. And the waiter looked at me like, well, of course you think I’m an idiot.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
You know what, what you’re ordering is fine. So he comes back, he comes back and he says, Oh, I’m so sorry. The chef adds flour to the rice. All of our rice dishes have flour in it because flour makes rice a little sticky. Or in three of the last seven Japanese restaurants I’ve gone into, I’ve said that to the waitress. Please ask the chef at the ads flower to the sushi rice. Oh no, we don’t. I understand. I understand. But please ask the chef. In three of the seven restaurants I’ve been to, Oh yes. The chef does do that. That you have to ask. You have to look them in the eye and you have to be very clear to try to protect yourself. That’s the first thing. The second thing is that you have to protect yourself any way you can, and that’s why I spent two years working on a digestive enzyme that I believe every person that has to gluten sensitivity should take before they start eating.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Whenever they go out to eat. It’s called glutens up and you take Lou ten’s a before every meal, even at home. If you’re eating grains, now tell you why in a minute, but before the meal, most enzymes you take during a meal, but this you take before because as a big clump of foods going down in your stomach, you don’t want any of it to get into the small intestine because the century cells in your small intestine, they’re right inside the small intestine that say, this is not good for me, which activates the whole inflammatory cascade. They’re called dendritic cells, so you don’t want those cells that are standing guard to be activated. That means no macromolecules can get into the small intestine of gluten, so you take Lieuten za before the meal so that you’re protected and the results have been dramatic. There many, many digestive enzymes out there that say they deal with gluten and most of them do you know if there are good companies they do, they do help.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
The problem is this is the only one that does it within 90 minutes before the food gets into the small intestine. Most of them take two hours, three hours, four hours, so you’re not safe. If you take one of those other types of gluten digesting enzymes and think that you’re not going to activate the inflammatory cascade in your body with some hidden gluten that might come in. Now I’m going to tell you about hidden gluten. They did a study of 14 different cultivars of keenwah. Keene was a really good grain and lots of people that are on the paleo diet or people that are gluten free. Enjoy eating. Keywan. Keenwah is a very healthy grain for you. It’s high in protein. It’s got lots of nutrients that are great for us, but keenwah doesn’t grow in the U S wait a minute. It does grow in the U S but wait, it never grew in the U S it grew in Peru.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
How is it that we have keen Wolf farms now in the U S they call it, debated it. There are many different cultivars of keen one now, and they looked at 14 different cultivars of keenwah and they found the four of them have toxic levels of gluten in them. Two of them, the toxic levels were high enough to stimulate intestinal permeability with Kainoa. So even when you eat grains at home, you want to be sure that you’re safe, that you take the glutens up. One more thing I’ll tell you about these hidden exposures that’s so important for people to know. The FDA, three tests from the FDA published a paper in, it was either December or November of last year. They looked at over 400 different gluten free foods. 275 of them were labeled gluten free and 140 143 I think it was, were naturally gluten free foods like rice, pasta and the ingredients saved rice, water, salt, naturally gluten free.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Those foods that were labeled gluten free on the label, 98.7% of them were gluten free. That’s pretty good. Only 1.3% were toxic. Now that’s not good if you’re getting the toxic 1.3% but in terms of commercial, that’s pretty good. Uh, you know that you’re going to be safe if you were eating a naturally gluten free food like rice cakes or Kane watt or amaranth, 24.7% of those foods had toxic levels of gluten in them. But wait, they’re naturally gluten free, but they’ve got gluten in them. But wait, how is that possible? It’s cross contamination. It’s cultivars like outs when they harvest outs from the fields, the trucks that bring the oats, the manufacturing facility hold week, last fleet and they don’t clean the trucks. So it’s cross-contamination or it’s cult of ours that had been specifically designed to grow in areas and they crossed that keenwah with grasses and it’s wheat grasses so that they’ll live in us and grow in the U S so if you’re gluten sensitive to protect yourself, you take lieutenants up. Um, I’m, I’m so proud of this product cause it really helps. It’s the first one that in studies in humans and university studies, they show it works, it works within 90 minutes, 60 to 90 minutes or gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, peanuts and protein fish probes.

Dr. Joe Tatta:
And where can, where can our listeners find gluten’s uh Oh that’s on the website. The dr com [inaudible] dot com so check that out. So just to kind of veer off the pain just for one quick little second, but still in the realm of physical medicine patients also experienced a taxi from gluten. Can you talk about that a little bit? Cause we have physical therapists, chiropractic physicians, other physicians on here that you know, you’re doing a whole musculoskeletal eval and you find things are coming up, obviously.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
You bet. Okay. Uh, we don’t have time to go into all of the detail of this. So if you accept this premise to think about, and you can look at the research later on my website, there’s many articles and things on this, but the intestinal permeability, the leaky gut is the gateway in the development of autoimmune diseases. Autoimmune diseases require a trilogy of events. First you have to have the genetic vulnerability for that particular autoimmune disease. Second, there’s an environmental trigger that sets it off the straw that broke the camel’s back. And third is intestinal permeability, the leaky gut. So gluten causes a leaky gut. Now you’ve got these macro molecules that have come into the bloodstream. You pull it a chain, the chain’s going to break at the weakest link. It could be at one end, the middle, the other end, your heart, your brain, your liver, your kidneys, wherever your genetic weak link is.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
When you pull on the chain, that’s where the Link’s going to break. So inflammation is the pull on the chain and with gluten caused inflammation. The most common weak link in the chain is the brain. That’s the most common weak link. And um, there are tests that you can do to see if you have that vulnerability. I did that test on myself. I had elevated antibodies to myelin basic protein that coats the nerves. And that’s the mechanism that causes ms is when antibodies destroy myelin cerebellar peptides. So there are Beller peptides, uh, uh, antibodies to cerebellar peptides cause ataxia and um, gangliosides when you have antibodies to gangliosides, it shrinks your brain and you lose brain function. When you’re an old person, all these things take years of killing off your brain cells before you see symptoms. Years of this, I had all three. I looked at that and I called the lab.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
I said, what’s this? This is a mistake. And then they said, no, it’s not. I said, do it again. So we did. We know it’s you. We did it again. I had those three antibodies to my brain elevate it. That’s the weak link in my chain. So I looked, what is this? Where’s this coming from? And it was intestinal permeability caused by gluten sensitivity. When you heal the gut, you calm down that inflammatory cascade, you stop throwing gasoline on the fire. Then the antibodies to the cerebellum went down to normal for me. And to the myelin went down to normal and to the gangliosides went down to normal. So it’s antibodies to your cerebellum because the cerebellum is the um, area of the brain that controls our balance and how we walk. And it’s a very common cause of idiopathic, a taxis. And our therapists understand that is that when you don’t know what the explanation is, you look and it’s called gluten ataxia.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
And there are many articles on pub med about gluten ataxia, so you’re not, and that’s without celiac disease. Here’s the kicker for you guys. If you look for celiac disease and they don’t have celiac, you’re going to miss it. That it’s a gluten related disorder with or without celiac disease. There are many studies show that celiacs are more vulnerable to developing gluten ataxia. But also there are many studies showing that gluten sensitivity without celiac disease can cause ataxia. So that’s a critical component to understand and you don’t feel this, you don’t feel the symptoms for 40 years. You know, if you’re a person in my age bracket, I was in my mid forties when I took that test and these antibodies are killing off my brain. Little by little by little. It may not be until I’m 65 or 70 that I’d be walking up the stairs guarded or walk down the stairs.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
You have to hold the rail and you’ve got to walk kind of slow cause you’re not really stable on your feet. And many of our elderly are that way. They’re, they’re not stable on their feet and it may be an ataxic type situation that’s contributing to that. Excellent. Thank you for making that connection for us. I think it’s, it’s a great piece of information, especially on a healing pain summit. You know, with all this information, all this research, all the research that you’ve done individually. The big question is why has the traditional medical community not really embraced this as a means for treatment for all the various chronic conditions we’ve talked about? That’s the really good question. And I saw a cartoon recently that really put it in perspective. It was a dog that was on a psychiatrist, a couch, and the dog had one of those, uh, uh, invisible fence colors on.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
And so the psychiatrist looks at the dog and he says, so tell me again why you think there’s a fence out there that you can’t get past, right? Yeah. There’s nothing, there’s no fence, but wait a minute. He’s got this thing on right and it’s, you can’t see it. And so our researchers, um, grew up, I would say in their understanding of a sensitivity to gluten because of the most obvious symptom and the most obvious condition, which is celiac disease. They grew up understanding that celiac is a problem by, or excuse me, that gluten is a problem by recognizing and studying celiac disease. And that’s a big problem. No question about it. It occurs in about one of every 100 people. And if your family has it, it’s one out of 20. So it’s pretty common. But non-celiac gluten sensitivity is so much more common, so much more depending on the studies.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
It’s as many as one out of five may have a sensitivity to gluten that they don’t know about. So our scientists grew up in the world of celiac and until just a few years ago, there were world-class scientists saying, if you don’t have celiac, you don’t have a problem with gluten. Now we know that’s utter nonsense, Southern nonsense. But that was cutting edge state of the art five years ago. So this is a rapidly changing market of understanding. And for your listeners, your doctors may not have had a chance yet to read the most current studies because they’re so busy just trying to stay on top of keeping their practice going and keeping you and your family healthy. They may not have had time to read this thing called non-celiac gluten sensitivity, but it’s very, very common. And it’s, um, it’s easy to diagnose. There’s an article on my website that everyone should read and take it to your doctors.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Or if you’re a therapist to read it so that you understand when you’re talking to your patients. And it’s called the conundrum of gluten sensitivity, why the tests are often wrong. And we talk about how are doctors think about testing, what tests they usually do, which is for celiac and what tests should they do so that they can identify non-celiac gluten sensitivity, celiac disease or their many different conditions have a problem with gluten. For example, there’s something called wheat amylase, trypsin inhibitors. That’s what bill Davis, his book is about wheat belly. There are gluteomorphins. That’s what David Perlmutter’s book is about. Brain grain. You know there are many different components of wheat that may be a problem that you want to look at, not just celiac disease. So that article explains it in detail is free on my website. The article is called the conundrum of gluten sensitivity, why the tests are off wrong.

Dr. Joe Tatta:
Excellent. So this is dr Tom O’Bryan. We’ve been talking about why gluten is the trigger for pain and inflammation in your life. And can you tell our listeners and our viewers where they can find more information about you? And the workshops you lead and the products you have.

Dr. Tom O’Bryan:
Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Um, our website is the dr dot com. Um, that’s the main website. There’s one other website that I’d suggest you consider and visiting and that is the gluten summit.com. And as you kindly said in the introduction, I hosted the gluten summit. I went to Oxford, England and interviewed the grandfather of all celiac diagnosis, bologna, Italy being grandfather, the godfather of non-celiac gluten sensitivity. He has over 400 medical articles published in the literature on non-celiac gluten sensitivity, Tel Aviv, Israel, professor Yehuda Shoenfeld, who is the godfather of autoimmunity called predictive autoimmunity, the gluten summit. I interviewed all these experts and you will learn everything you ever wanted to know about gluten at the gluten summit. And you’ll, you’ll have a big-picture overview and an OMG again and again and again as you listen to these experts tell you what the science says and how it might manifest and why your daughters, uh, uh, weight gain or your son’s attention deficit hyperactivity disorder may be caused by a food sensitivity may be caused by gluten. How do you tell and what do you do about it? All of that is there. Uh, and it’s very similar to your summit in the structure. Uh, there were 29 interviews, 29 hours, and they asked that the gluten summit.com.

Dr. Joe Tatta:
Excellent. So I want to thank Dr. Tom O’Bryan for being with us on the Healing Pain Summit, connecting for us why gluten is the trigger to your pain. And please check out his website, the gluten summit.com as well as www dot the dr that the dr com and we will see you in the next episode.